Prices falling, developers hurting... is this the series the viewers have been waiting for?
When Property Ladder was first made, I remember the original commissioner saying: It's good now but it will only really come into its own when the market's not so hot. So, yes, in a way this is what Property Ladder's always been made for. People's decisions actually count... they're not just being rescued by the market. But sometimes it's been terribly painful to watch... they might have been a bit silly going into some of these projects, but the reality is very sobering.
How recently were you involved in a property development project of your own?
We [Sarah runs an investment company with her husband] have an investment portfolio, and we do bits and pieces, but I've been a little concerend about the market for a few years. From about 2005/6, particularly the 12 months leading up to the failure of Northern Rock, just the speed at which the market was going up worred me. We probably got out of the market - or at least slowed ourselves down - a little too soon.
Do you feel any genuine irritation when amateur developers ignore your advice and insist they know better? Or are you satisfied by the knowledge that it’s going to be good TV, and that’s what it’s ultimately all about?
I honestly don't think that much about the TV side, I let the others just get on with that. I suppose the reason I don't get really cross is that it's not my money. And ultimately I'd much rather they did what they think is right. Actually this series people have started taking a bit more of my advice and it slightly panics me. If you offer some advice and they don't take it you think: Oh, well, fine, whatever... and if it turns out at the end they should have done it, great. But if they change their plans and do what you suggest, that's when you feel a little bit more responsibility.
I've had moments when I've been lying in bed at night thinking: That definitely was the right advice, wasn't it? It's not an exact science, and a little bit is about going with your gut. But there's a difference between me going with my gut, and somebody else going with my gut.
Is it possible to tell fairly quickly which developers have what it takes to make a career out of it, and which don’t?
You're on the train on the way there and you talk through the project with the director, and you learn how much they've spent, what they want to do, how much they're planning to spend, and pretty much by the end of the conversation you're thinking: Crikey, they shouldn't have bought that, or: Actually that's quite a good deal. It's usually more about the project and less about the people.
Do you ever genuinely fear for the future financial security of any of the Property Ladder developers? Have you ever felt like taking one aside and quietly saying: “Look, for your own sake, just forget about it. Sell now and do somethiing else.”
There is actually one show in this series when I do actually say exactly that on camera: You're going to take a loss, all we're talking about now is how much money you lose. The possible losses could be as much as half a million. So if you could get that down to about two or three hundred thousand... that's not such a terrible situation. It sounded completely mad, but that was the situation... In a way, mitigating people's losses isn't that different to any other advice. Just more depressing.
You’ve gone on record describing runaway prices – the developer’s best friend – as a bad thing, and you’ve suggested the correction was inevitable. Could your own attitude to the property business be described as a little ambivalent?
I'm not sure they are the property developer's best friend. If you happen to have lucked out with perfect timing, that's great. But ultimately, as a developer, you should be creating a new modernised house for somebody who doesn't want to do any DIY to move into. You should be being paid for your work, not just playing the market. So ultimately I don't think runaway prices help anyone. I'd prefer a nice stable market, with perhaps a moderate amount of long-term growth. Ultimately, people need to be able to afford to move. Houses are there for living in.
Development should be a business that supplies people with houses, the market itself should be governed by the people who live in those houses.
Can we talk about Tepilo… it’s a for-sale-by-owner-project… what is your involvement and what separates it from the competition? How will it make money?
I have partners but it's my baby. I went to Codegent and asked them to build it and to build it so anybody could use it, and I'm so happy with it. It's really straightforward. We're not looking at monetising it for at least a couple of years, and eventually it will probably be about sponsoring. But for the foreseeable future it's free.
So what about the estate agents... not in your vision of the future?
I think there'll always be room for estate agents, but - like travel agents - they'll become more niche or specialist, perhaps for unusual homes, or farms, or estates, or for very large, expensive deals. I'd imagine that most of us who live in "normal" houses could find something better to do with ten grand.
What about their skills at negotiation?
To be honest, I think some estate agents are good at negotiation but an awful lot aren't. And I think you've got a better incentive to negotiate, as a vendor, than your estate agent has. It's your house... their incentive is to get a deal. Our site helps you negotiate through the technology, rather than face to face, so it's impersonal and less stressful.
Where now for the property market?
I don't think we'll see prices going rapidly up for quite a long time. I suspect we'll have a nice steady market for about 10 years.
Many thanks, Sarah, for taking the time to chat... it's very much appreciated.
I think Sarah has just nudged Kirstie Allsop from the top of my 'Favourite property developer league'. I won't advise Mrs Jackson of this just yet......
Until the next one,
Mr Jackson.
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